Topics: Protests in Melbourne; trust in politics; cyber security.
MATT WEBBER: Minister for Home Affairs and member for McPherson, Karen Andrews. Good morning to you.
KAREN ANDREWS: Hi, Matt, how are you?
MATT WEBBER: I’m well. Glorious day here on the Gold Coast; what’s not to love?
KAREN ANDREWS: Beautiful.
MATT WEBBER: I wanted to talk specifically about something that falls well and truly under your umbrella as Home Affairs Minister first and foremost, and it arises out of what we witnessed in Melbourne over the course of the weekend – the protests down there. Some pretty troubling scenes, too. Large crowds gathering in Melbourne’s CBD to protest against vaccine mandates, but it was what was in the crowd that was particularly concerning – and I’m speaking of lots of ‘Make America Great Again’ hats, Trump flags, and in a charming little twist a range of nooses and gallows and the like. Now, the rise of the far right is something that is of concern and we’ve seen it get plenty of publicity lately on shows like Four Corners and 7:30. Domestic terrorism falls well and truly under your umbrella as Home Affairs Minister, what were you thinking as you watched on?
KAREN ANDREWS: I thought it was appalling. There was, firstly, no need – and that is a grand understatement – for any of that sort of behaviour to be there. More importantly though, that behaviour is in fact absolutely unacceptable. That is not the way Australians should be protesting or trying to make their views heard and understood. What I would say to people who engage in that conduct is that they are actually devaluing the story and the message that they’re trying to get across. What we saw with the nooses – now that’s appalling. A lot of the things that we have seen with Nazi insignia, Dan Andrews in particular has been the target – and whilst I don’t agree with a lot of the things that Dan Andrews says – I do not condone at all any of the terrible things that have been done that line him up with things that are just not acceptable in Australian politics.
MATT WEBBER: Now, the reality of this situation is that, well, in a very real sense America stood idly by while a lot of this stuff festered, and at the end of the day the White House was stormed and lives were lost. Are you concerned that these scenes that we see in Melbourne could be the formative moments of something quite significant and quite awful?
KAREN ANDREWS: I’m very aware of where these types of behaviours and what’s being played out at these events may well lead to. So, yes, I am very conscious of that, and I can see an escalation in that. I’m talking to our security agencies; I’m talking to the Australian Federal Police – they’re very aware of the escalation in some of these issues; they’re very aware of what is happening, particularly in relation to elected representatives with the feedback that they’re getting, in a very negative way, about mandates that have been introduced by various state governments. That’s targeted at all levels of government even though it’s only one level of government – the state government – that’s actually making those mandates. So we are very concerned about that. We do have an inquiry before one of the parliamentary committees; the PJCIS. It’s actually looking at all forms of extremism. So I am very keen to get the report from them, which will give a very deep dive into many of the groups that are out there. But it’s not just groups; it’s individuals as well and we shouldn’t lose sight of that.
MATT WEBBER: LNP member for Hughes, now head of the United Australia Party – Clive Palmer’s mob, if I can call it that – Craig Kelly, was among the throng there. There was another LNP state member present there, too. Conservative commentator Peta Credlin in the crowd as well. What would you say to them?
KAREN ANDREWS: Well, what I would say is that I would not be attending those sorts of protests at all. I think that people should be very conscious of the messages that they’re sending when they do turn up, and no-one should be wanting to get themselves associated with any sort of event that may become violent.
MATT WEBBER: Where will you place the United Australia Party on how to vote cards come the next election?
KAREN ANDREWS: That decision hasn’t been made at this point in time. From my own seat of McPherson, I’m just out there every day that I possibly can be, focusing on delivering for the people here. When the election is called then we’ll start to turn our minds seriously to preferences. But that is a long way off; that is actually a next year discussion.
MATT WEBBER: But it’s got to be on your radar, doesn’t it? I mean, the UAP are essentially running on a platform of undermining a national public health response. Surely you would want to early and swiftly disassociate yourselves from that entity, for fear of undermining your own public health plans?
KAREN ANDREWS: At this point in time, if I talk about any of the Gold Coast seats, I’m not aware that there is a candidate from the UAP who has been announced to be standing here on the Gold Coast. So it’s a very moot point. Overall what we might do in terms of preferences is a matter that we’ll go through as we get closer to the election being called. We have been very clear as a government that you need to take the appropriate health advice. So I encourage, and will continue to encourage, all Australians to make sure that in terms of vaccination, they speak with their own medical professional, and they get the advice that they need; and they should be very wary of information that they pick up on social media platforms, because often the information is – in fact – misinformation.
MATT WEBBER: This kind of lends itself to a conversation I’m also keen to have with you, and that is about truth in politics; matters of political integrity have been well and truly front and centre. The Prime Minister Scott Morrison insisting on Neil Mitchell’s 3AW program in Melbourne last week that he’s never told a lie in public office – I don’t believe he has. Has he ever told you a fib?
KAREN ANDREWS: No, not that I’m aware of.
MATT WEBBER: Not that you’re aware of? I mean, these sorts of issues, though, they’re becoming baggage, aren’t they? For your party’s leadership? I think, you know, publicly airing allegations of a journalist harassing a woman in a woman’s toilet which was proven untrue down the track, Brian Houston, Hillsong pastor’s invitation to the White House, “I don’t comment on gossip,” said the Prime Minister back in the day when, in fact, it wasn’t gossip we now know. Electronic vehicles, flip-flopping on that. “I’m not going to cop the French PM sledging Australia,” when clearly the President’s accusation was levelled very personally at the Prime Minister directly. I mean, this kind of cloudiness around the truth of the matter is becoming a bit of a problem for your party, isn’t it?
KAREN ANDREWS: Well, people need to have confidence and they need to have trust in the people who are representing them. I actually firmly believe that all politicians who take on the role as an elected representative, go in with the best of intentions. Now, in terms of people lying or people being distrustful in their approach, what I will say is that I think that everyone, irrespective of who they are, tends to make the best decisions based on the information that is before them at the time. Over time there will be additional information – there will be new advice that comes in – and sometimes that leads to a modification of views, or a modification of direction. That is really sensible because you don’t want to lock in or – in the face of different views – continue to head down a particular approach. But trust and integrity, confidence in politicians, is important – and I think it’s really disappointing that over many, many years people’s trust in politicians has been diminished. So I think it’s incumbent on all of us – irrespective of our political persuasion – to do what we can to increase the trust and confidence that people have in politicians.
MATT WEBBER: It’s self-inflicted though.
KAREN ANDREWS: Not always it’s not. It actually has been a very longstanding perception that politicians are not highly regarded – if you look at what the professional standings are, they’re certainly lower than a lot of other professions – when, in fact, most of the people who go into politics in my experience go in there with the very best intentions to make sure that they are doing the best that they possibly can for the people who have elected them, to represent them.
MATT WEBBER: Would you leak a private text message to the media?
KAREN ANDREWS: I haven’t done that. In particular circumstances where the only thing that you have available to you to defend a position is something that you would normally keep closely, I think you’ve actually got to look at what you can do to be able to defend yourself.
MATT WEBBER: To matters in your own portfolio again, Ms Andrews, you’re heading to the Glasshouse Mountains I believe, cyber security is on the agenda for you. Tell us about what it is that you’re doing this week and who you’re talking to and what about?
KAREN ANDREWS: Yes, absolutely. Last week was actually Scams Awareness Week, and I’m sure that many of the listeners today would have had text messages or they would have had emails being sent to them that are basically part of scams. Unfortunately some of the people here on the Gold Coast would have actually clicked through those links; may well have lost a whole heap of information, personal data, and may well have lost a considerable amount of money because of it. So what we’re doing through IDCARE – which is a not-for-profit organisation based on the Sunshine Coast – is we’re actually working to get outreach into local communities, because often people who are out in regional and rural parts of Australia are just as affected by cyber scams as those people who live in our major cities.
MATT WEBBER: I’ve often wondered if people in more regional areas or more isolated areas are more susceptible to this kind of thing simply because of the tyranny of distance?
KAREN ANDREWS: Well, often they can be. So that’s why we’re doing the outreach – to make sure that we’re getting into these communities to raise their level of awareness of cyber security. We’re actually going to be on a pineapple farm in fact, in the Glasshouse Mountains very soon and, you know – for all our ag producers, when they’re out, they’ve still got their smart phones in their pocket; they’re just as susceptible as anyone else to a cyber-scam. So just because you’re not living in a city doesn’t mean that you’re immune. The whole point of this program is to make sure that we’re doing the outreach and making sure that people in rural and regional Australia are aware of the need to keep themselves cyber safe.
MATT WEBBER: We’ll let you hit the road, Minister Andrews. Appreciate your time, as always. Thank you.
KAREN ANDREWS: It’s a pleasure. Take care.